Interviews from HR Innovator Magazine

The Rhoades Well-Travelled

Ann Rhoades
President
PeopleInk
Albuquerque, NM

In 1998, after over 25 years of building powerful people departments in such celebrated companies as Southwest Airlines Doubletree Hotels, Ann Rhoades thought she was ready to take her “people-centric” management philosophies to a broader market. So, as she completed her responsibilities at Doubletree, where she was executive vice president of people, she took the initial steps to launch her Albuquerque-based consulting practice, PeopleInk. But with an unexpected phone call – well, a series of persistent calls – her career took flight yet again, quite literally.

A former Southwest executive was about to launch a new airline, and of all the inspiring HR visionaries in the country to choose from, he selected Ann Rhoades to drive the creative people culture in what would be one of the most astounding business success stories of the last several years – JetBlue. To launch such a highly capitalized business as the country was at the threshold of economic dark days would have put any company's prospects at a huge disadvantage. And JetBlue was an airline -- an airline that soared precisely at the same tragic time its competition (with the exception, of course, of Southwest) was brought to its knees.

Now, two years later, JetBlue is an established player in a field in which successful start-ups are rare under the best of circumstances. Although she has passed the full-time responsibilities on to her personally-selected successor, she remains active on its board. She is also a board member of another post-New Economy success story, PF Chang's, an up-market Asian restaurant brand, as well as the privately held Western Warehouse, a western apparel chain store throughout the Southwest. With her PeopleInk practice firmly on its feet now, she also travels the world speaking on the value of people-centric organizations (both in HR and customer service), and developing a book on her experiences and principles.

Your relationship with JetBlue founder and Chief Executive Officer David Neeleman had a, shall we say, inauspicious beginning. Is this a story you and David are comfortable talking about now?

It's a story we both have been very sensitive about in recent years. But David is now telling it himself. I actually had to recommend firing him from Southwest Airlines. When it came to terminating senior team members, [Southwest CEO] Herb Kelleher hated doing it. So he'd take them out to dinner to discuss their performance and then tell them they had to come and see me. Herb was so congenial and upbeat after dinner, people often came to my office thinking they were getting a promotion. But after talking with me, they'd come to see that it was almost always an issue of bad fit. They knew just as much as we did that they didn't belong at Southwest. Herb swore they left my office smiling!

With David, it was definitely a matter of poor fit of personal styles. He had come from a high-performing smaller airline we had acquired, and immediately began telling us what we were doing wrong. That's the nature of the entrepreneur, they want to change things to make them better. But Southwest had already achieved success doing what it was doing so well over 25 years. And management wasn't receptive to someone coming in and telling them that most of what they were doing could be improved. I was one of the ones who agreed he shouldn't stay with the organization.

So then years later you're minding your own business and you get a call from him?

By that time I had moved over to Doubletree Hotels where I was executive vice president of people and was in the process of establishing my consulting practice. I was still at Doubletree, but I had already signed a lease agreement on the office space, and I had already hired two people for this new venture.

So when David called me, I told him I was not interested. Then he met me in Atlanta, when I was there for a speech, to talk me into helping him start JetBlue. Again I said no. I even ignored his phone calls. Then he left a message saying, “You'd better call me back!” When I talked to him again, he said, “At least come to New York and meet the team I have put together.”

I flew in and fell in love with the team. It would be the best management team I'd ever have the pleasure of working with in my life.

How did you rise above your last experience with David?

I saw that he had grown in terms of his leadership style. He was much more people-centric than he had been at Southwest. After leaving Southwest, he had gone to Canada and started yet another airline. And it was there he built up his strengths as a people leader. Everyone I talked to said the same thing: David had grown. So I decided to go to New York and work with him.

It was wonderful to be able to build something from scratch, to experiment with new ideas, and creative ways of approaching people issues in business. Because David is such an entrepreneur, he expects creativity and innovation. That alone was worth everything to me – not just monetarily, but really because of the ability to be creative in HR. I look for that more than anything else.

What is the Great Promise of HR that if HR professionals only embraced it would spring their career prospects wide open?

The Great Promise of HR is that you can have a huge impact on any organization. When you understand that, you act differently. You make better choices. And you are more confident in taking risks and daring to speak the truth – even if it means your job is on the line.

What was the point when you realized, “Oh my gosh, this role is bigger than I thought it was.”?

It was early in my career when I was working at a struggling bank in Santa Fe. A representative from the corporate office came to town and interviewed the senior team to assess the situation. Of the five of us, I'm the only one who said I thought the CEO didn't have what it took to turn the bank around and should be replaced. Then I went home and told my husband I was out of a job. But the next morning, the CEO was gone. The replacement CEO became one of my earliest mentors and is still a very good friend of mine. As a result of the moment when I was the only one with the nerve to speak the truth, I was rewarded with many opportunities on the corporate level that might have otherwise passed me by.

There's a lot of responsibility when you take an HR job. Too many people are more concerned with keeping the job than they are with living up to the potential of their position. It drives me crazy when I think about it. But then I remember that I had the good fortune to have a risk-taking ethic reinforced and rewarded very early in my career.

How important is the HR leader's relationship with the CEO, in terms of being able to drive the company toward its objectives?

It's critical. If you don't have a good relationship with the CEO, if the CEO doesn't respect your views and/or your input and/or your ideas, just forget about it. Don't stay. Get the heck out. If you do choose to stay, just know that your career prospects will be limited.

What are the signs of a Grade A opportunity for an HR professional who wants to build an A Player career?

Assuming we're talking about the senior-most HR role, that person should report directly to the CEO. The most critical thing you do, therefore, is interview the CEO. I'm not talking about the CEO interviewing you, I'm saying you should actively interview the CEO. Make sure the CEO expects you to be a significant player in the organization.

The company's other senior team members must also believe that HR plays a significant role in the organization. While I was deciding on the Doubletree job, I interviewed with another well-known company in which the CEO made a point of saying he promoted HR. But I also interviewed the other members, and they had zero respect for HR. I withdrew myself from consideration for that role. At this point, I think they've been through three or four top HR leaders since.

I don't mind going in and earning respect in a role where my predecessor was less than respected and had fewer contributions. That's easy. But when the senior team simply doesn't care about the role itself or sees its relevance to the organization, then it just takes too much time. Who needs to fight a losing battle?

You have said that the worst thing an HR person can do is think like an HR person. What did you mean by that?

HR people shouldn't consider their contributions only in terms of the HR perspective. Pay attention to the other aspects of the organization. That way you understand the real impact your role has on the company. You have to understand how every move you make affects the company as a whole. To “think like an HR person,” in my mind, means having a tunnel vision that limits the prospects of the role, the function, the entire company for that matter – not to mention your own career. Think like an operator!

What's the secret to standing out so that you get noticed and are given the wonderful opportunities you've had over the years?

First of all excel at your job. But also make sure you're working in a really great people-centric organization. Work for the best companies you can – those that are recognized for their innovation, uniqueness, excellence, performance and success. You can't stand out in a poor organization. Well, sure, you can stand out inside that organization, but no one outside is going to notice. The problem with poor organizations is that headhunters aren't going to come looking for you there. They look to top performing organizations for their A Players.

Top performing companies are also more motivated to make sure their people are happy, recognized, and rewarded. We know headhunters are courting our people. So we have to constantly compete to hang on to them. So, in HR, you have an even more important role in these companies.

And, naturally, the organizations that stand out in this way typically have the kind of CEO you want to work for. Funny how it all seems to work out that way.

What is the essential ingredient for HR success?

I always go back to the same theme: Be a risk taker. Earn the respect and credibility within the organization necessary so that the CEO and the senior team comes to you and solicits your participation and input – even in areas that traditionally don't have obvious HR participation. You'll find yourself learning much more when you're on committees that aren't related to HR. Make yourself invaluable to the CEO. But you have to be a risk taker to achieve that.

You have to be able to learn and to learn fast. You have to be willing to commit time and effort to be an integral part of the organization. And you have to maintain an open door at all times. Be available!

This article originally appeared in the November/December 2003 issue of HR Innovator magazine. Reprinted with permission.